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	<title>Comments on: On Academia</title>
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	<description>Games &#38; interactive entertainment: design, production, industry and related topics</description>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 06:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>you&#039;ve come to the right place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;ve come to the right place.</p>
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		<title>By: jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator>jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2005 03:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i want to be a singer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i want to be a singer</p>
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		<title>By: Grand Text Auto</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Text Auto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2005 04:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Curse the Mountain, Not the Climbers&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#039;m settling into Portland, Oregon now, after moving here a couple of weeks ago from Boston.  Between the move and switching to working full-time on finishing Facade for the next two months, I haven&#039;t had much time to blog, but I&#039;ll toss out a quick...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Curse the Mountain, Not the Climbers</strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;m settling into Portland, Oregon now, after moving here a couple of weeks ago from Boston.  Between the move and switching to working full-time on finishing Facade for the next two months, I haven&#8217;t had much time to blog, but I&#8217;ll toss out a quick&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jurie Horneman</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Jurie Horneman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 06:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Erik, I agree that some kind of consensus on what &#039;better interactive entertainment&#039; means would be a useful step.

I am interested in bridging the divide, otherwise I wouldn&#039;t have written the post (even if it may not appear that way :). I already know the PDF you linked to - it is highly interesting for the insight it gives into EA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik, I agree that some kind of consensus on what &#8216;better interactive entertainment&#8217; means would be a useful step.</p>
<p>I am interested in bridging the divide, otherwise I wouldn&#8217;t have written the post (even if it may not appear that way :). I already know the PDF you linked to &#8211; it is highly interesting for the insight it gives into EA.</p>
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		<title>By: ErikC</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>ErikC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt;How can we increase the amount of thinking that goes into making better interactive entertainment?

maybe the real problem is we don&#039;t have agreed upon standards of &#039;better interactive entertainment&#039;. If there are such standards for academia and for industry, I would love to see them, and if/how we can bring them closer together.

I will write up a bigger article for the games community on bridging the joystick divide between academia and gamers and can post ideas from it here if interested, but a more immediate step might be to look at articles on this divide and tell us what the industry thinks of it.
For example &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/tshah/PauschAcademicsFieldGuideToEA.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/tshah/PauschAcademicsFieldGuideToEA.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
There may be a better starting point, I just thought this may interest you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>How can we increase the amount of thinking that goes into making better interactive entertainment?</p>
<p>maybe the real problem is we don&#8217;t have agreed upon standards of &#8216;better interactive entertainment&#8217;. If there are such standards for academia and for industry, I would love to see them, and if/how we can bring them closer together.</p>
<p>I will write up a bigger article for the games community on bridging the joystick divide between academia and gamers and can post ideas from it here if interested, but a more immediate step might be to look at articles on this divide and tell us what the industry thinks of it.<br />
For example <a href="http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/tshah/PauschAcademicsFieldGuideToEA.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/tshah/PauschAcademicsFieldGuideToEA.pdf</a><br />
There may be a better starting point, I just thought this may interest you.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jurie, your specific question about why there isn&#039;t more developer-oriented academic work is a good one. There are various answers, I&#039;m sure, that involve academics preferring not to do such work, developers not looking to academia, an inability to do large research projects that have anything to do with the current massive and costly development processes, etc., but perhaps the simple ratio of a large number of &quot;consumers&quot; (players) to a few &quot;producers&quot; (developers) is one significant factor.

Personally, I definitely wanted Twisty Little Passages to be of direct use to IF developers, including Emily Short, Adam Cadre, Andrew Plotkin, Paul O&#039;Brien, Stephen Granade, Dan Shiovitz, and Graham Nelson, but I wasn&#039;t trying to write a book that would be as directly useful to, say, Will Wright and Tetsuya Mizuguchi. My hope is that the book will be one of several factors that fosters continued innovation in interactive fiction. It would be great, also, if what is learned in IF can trickle up to commercial gaming in various ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurie, your specific question about why there isn&#8217;t more developer-oriented academic work is a good one. There are various answers, I&#8217;m sure, that involve academics preferring not to do such work, developers not looking to academia, an inability to do large research projects that have anything to do with the current massive and costly development processes, etc., but perhaps the simple ratio of a large number of &#8220;consumers&#8221; (players) to a few &#8220;producers&#8221; (developers) is one significant factor.</p>
<p>Personally, I definitely wanted Twisty Little Passages to be of direct use to IF developers, including Emily Short, Adam Cadre, Andrew Plotkin, Paul O&#8217;Brien, Stephen Granade, Dan Shiovitz, and Graham Nelson, but I wasn&#8217;t trying to write a book that would be as directly useful to, say, Will Wright and Tetsuya Mizuguchi. My hope is that the book will be one of several factors that fosters continued innovation in interactive fiction. It would be great, also, if what is learned in IF can trickle up to commercial gaming in various ways.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ludologist</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ludologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Double-coding&lt;/strong&gt;

With the discussion of academia vs. industry/practice blossoming at Intelligent Artifice and Terra Nova, a comment at the Zen of Design blog strikes a chord:

Double-coding is the practice of creating a work of art that speaks to two different audien...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Double-coding</strong></p>
<p>With the discussion of academia vs. industry/practice blossoming at Intelligent Artifice and Terra Nova, a comment at the Zen of Design blog strikes a chord:</p>
<p>Double-coding is the practice of creating a work of art that speaks to two different audien&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jurie Horneman</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>Jurie Horneman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intelligent-artifice.dreamhosters.com/2004/12/12/on-academia/#comment-414</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&quot;I&#039;m afraid many people who are interested in thinking about games will
assume, as I once did, that video game academia has some merit&quot;..Once did?
well sorry (&quot;I never said academics don&#039;t matter&quot;) that was -I thought-the
provocative question.

I must admit your interpretation is not unreasonable. The merit I referred to was, once again, in the context of making better interactive entertainment.

&gt;&gt; a. There are more humanities scholars than humanities posts (pls correct my cynicism)and there are many new &#039;design&#039; posts.

Must game design necessarily involve only the humanities? How strong is that split?

&gt;&gt;I know in my departments there is a real shortage of experienced multimedia teachers.

I suspect that, ironically, it&#039;s just as hard to go from industry to academia as vice versa. Except for the vocational side of things perhaps, but I have not been impressed with the quality of that in the past.

&gt;&gt;d. Building successful spatial environments takes a huge amount of experience-let alone interactive ones.

Why spatial environments? Spatiality is not an essential element of interactive entertainment (even though some game academics claim the opposite).

&gt;&gt;And they are very complex to evaluate or communicate.

True. This is a general problem of thinking and talking about games. One could call this a vocabulary problem, but it&#039;s really a problem of the concepts behind the words.

&gt;&gt;e. As Socrates said, if you want to know art, don&#039;t ask artists. Teaching is a different skill to designing.

I agree. Ask me about my guitar teacher sometime - just don&#039;t ask me to play the guitar.

&gt;&gt;f. Perhaps the biggest reason: games are not easily (at least in my country) seen as research. Certainly not at the level of refereed papers, books etc. Tis a real shame.

I remember reading on the Digra list about the political struggle behind being able to study games - how some people strongly demarcated games from other media studies simply as a way to get funding.

&gt;&gt;g. Traditional scholars are prescriptive knowledge based, their very medium
of learning is different.

I totally do not follow you here, sorry.

&gt;&gt;If you are asking a more prescriptive question, ie how we can remedy this,
I would be very interested to know.

Well... How can we improve communication between academia and industry? How can we increase the amount of thinking that goes into making better interactive entertainment (I realize I must appear obsessive by now ;)

This also goes back to the topics Robin raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>&#8221;I&#8217;m afraid many people who are interested in thinking about games will<br />
assume, as I once did, that video game academia has some merit&#8221;..Once did?<br />
well sorry (&#8220;I never said academics don&#8217;t matter&#8221;) that was -I thought-the<br />
provocative question.</p>
<p>I must admit your interpretation is not unreasonable. The merit I referred to was, once again, in the context of making better interactive entertainment.</p>
<p>>> a. There are more humanities scholars than humanities posts (pls correct my cynicism)and there are many new &#8216;design&#8217; posts.</p>
<p>Must game design necessarily involve only the humanities? How strong is that split?</p>
<p>>>I know in my departments there is a real shortage of experienced multimedia teachers.</p>
<p>I suspect that, ironically, it&#8217;s just as hard to go from industry to academia as vice versa. Except for the vocational side of things perhaps, but I have not been impressed with the quality of that in the past.</p>
<p>>>d. Building successful spatial environments takes a huge amount of experience-let alone interactive ones.</p>
<p>Why spatial environments? Spatiality is not an essential element of interactive entertainment (even though some game academics claim the opposite).</p>
<p>>>And they are very complex to evaluate or communicate.</p>
<p>True. This is a general problem of thinking and talking about games. One could call this a vocabulary problem, but it&#8217;s really a problem of the concepts behind the words.</p>
<p>>>e. As Socrates said, if you want to know art, don&#8217;t ask artists. Teaching is a different skill to designing.</p>
<p>I agree. Ask me about my guitar teacher sometime &#8211; just don&#8217;t ask me to play the guitar.</p>
<p>>>f. Perhaps the biggest reason: games are not easily (at least in my country) seen as research. Certainly not at the level of refereed papers, books etc. Tis a real shame.</p>
<p>I remember reading on the Digra list about the political struggle behind being able to study games &#8211; how some people strongly demarcated games from other media studies simply as a way to get funding.</p>
<p>>>g. Traditional scholars are prescriptive knowledge based, their very medium<br />
of learning is different.</p>
<p>I totally do not follow you here, sorry.</p>
<p>>>If you are asking a more prescriptive question, ie how we can remedy this,<br />
I would be very interested to know.</p>
<p>Well&#8230; How can we improve communication between academia and industry? How can we increase the amount of thinking that goes into making better interactive entertainment (I realize I must appear obsessive by now ;)</p>
<p>This also goes back to the topics Robin raised.</p>
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		<title>By: ErikC</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>ErikC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intelligent-artifice.dreamhosters.com/2004/12/12/on-academia/#comment-413</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;m afraid many people who are interested in thinking about games will assume, as I once did, that video game academia has some merit&quot;..Once did?
well sorry (&quot;I never said academics don&#039;t matter&quot;) that was -I thought-the provocative question.
If you are asking why academics aren&#039;t teaching students to be _better_ interactive entertainment designers I suggest
a. There are more humanities scholars than humanities posts (pls correct my cynicism)and there are many new &#039;design&#039; posts. I know in my departments there is a real shortage of experienced multimedia teachers.
b. People who love creating and are great at it don&#039;t tend to work for institutions (be they in multimedia, architecture or film making).
c. The field in terms of corporate clout is relatively new and based on technology moving in strange and exciting heated ways (unless we can only talk about desktops).
d. Building successful spatial environments takes a huge amount of experience-let alone interactive ones. And they are very complex to evaluate or communicate.
e. As Socrates said, if you want to know art, don&#039;t ask artists. Teaching is a different skill to designing.
f. Perhaps the biggest reason: games are not easily (at least in my country) seen as research. Certainly not at the level of refereed papers, books etc. Tis a real shame.
g. Traditional scholars are prescriptive knowledge based, their very medium of learning is different.
If you are asking a more prescriptive question, ie how we can remedy this, I would be very interested to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m afraid many people who are interested in thinking about games will assume, as I once did, that video game academia has some merit&#8221;..Once did?<br />
well sorry (&#8220;I never said academics don&#8217;t matter&#8221;) that was -I thought-the provocative question.<br />
If you are asking why academics aren&#8217;t teaching students to be _better_ interactive entertainment designers I suggest<br />
a. There are more humanities scholars than humanities posts (pls correct my cynicism)and there are many new &#8216;design&#8217; posts. I know in my departments there is a real shortage of experienced multimedia teachers.<br />
b. People who love creating and are great at it don&#8217;t tend to work for institutions (be they in multimedia, architecture or film making).<br />
c. The field in terms of corporate clout is relatively new and based on technology moving in strange and exciting heated ways (unless we can only talk about desktops).<br />
d. Building successful spatial environments takes a huge amount of experience-let alone interactive ones. And they are very complex to evaluate or communicate.<br />
e. As Socrates said, if you want to know art, don&#8217;t ask artists. Teaching is a different skill to designing.<br />
f. Perhaps the biggest reason: games are not easily (at least in my country) seen as research. Certainly not at the level of refereed papers, books etc. Tis a real shame.<br />
g. Traditional scholars are prescriptive knowledge based, their very medium of learning is different.<br />
If you are asking a more prescriptive question, ie how we can remedy this, I would be very interested to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligent-artifice.com/2004/12/on_academia.html/comment-page-1#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intelligent-artifice.dreamhosters.com/2004/12/12/on-academia/#comment-412</guid>
		<description>Although it&#039;s a bit late now (comment explosion!), I should probably point out that I have found useful academic articles in the past - I didn&#039;t mean to sound as though everything was &quot;a restatement, or plain wrong&quot; in the first post.

I must admit, though, that I can&#039;t remember which articles these are.

I&#039;m no fan of the counter-snobbery that ensues against the Ivory Tower by self described pragmatists. The fact is (and THIS is a restatement), there is good stuff out there but it is hard to find. I don&#039;t feel like assessing a bad piece of writing is a waste of my time - in many cases it creates new ideas. Being unhappy with the status quo is one of the fastest ways to go about changing it. &quot;It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it and all that guff&quot;. (Hmm, by this reasoning, anything good I do is a result of someone else doing it worse, or just really pissing me off in the general sense).

In conclusion: I love academics, and academics love me (I have photographic evidence).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although it&#8217;s a bit late now (comment explosion!), I should probably point out that I have found useful academic articles in the past &#8211; I didn&#8217;t mean to sound as though everything was &#8220;a restatement, or plain wrong&#8221; in the first post.</p>
<p>I must admit, though, that I can&#8217;t remember which articles these are.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no fan of the counter-snobbery that ensues against the Ivory Tower by self described pragmatists. The fact is (and THIS is a restatement), there is good stuff out there but it is hard to find. I don&#8217;t feel like assessing a bad piece of writing is a waste of my time &#8211; in many cases it creates new ideas. Being unhappy with the status quo is one of the fastest ways to go about changing it. &#8220;It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it and all that guff&#8221;. (Hmm, by this reasoning, anything good I do is a result of someone else doing it worse, or just really pissing me off in the general sense).</p>
<p>In conclusion: I love academics, and academics love me (I have photographic evidence).</p>
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